Unterhaltung mit #deegree

(20:13:34) Jens: * Agenda for today: https://wiki.deegree.org/deegreeWiki/PscMeeting/PscMeeting20111117
(20:14:15) Jens: * Tracker tasks review: http://wald.intevation.org/tracker/?atid=281&group_id=27
(20:14:55) Jens: Let's start with today's agenda: https://wiki.deegree.org/deegreeWiki/PscMeeting/PscMeeting20111117
(20:15:10) Jens: Do you have any comments on that?
(20:15:33) Herman: No, OK
(20:16:15) Klaus: not from my side
(20:16:54) Jens: Fine. So, let's start with last meeting's minutes: https://wiki.deegree.org/deegreeWiki/PscMeeting/PscMeeting20111027
(20:18:18) Klaus: agreed, no further comments
(20:18:25) Jens: There are quite some explicit and implicit actions in there. I have to admit that I did not take action on the implicit issues here...
(20:18:47) Jens: This means, what I still have to do (and will do this tonight) is:
(20:19:14) Jens: - Assign an action to the TMC to review the Release management guidelines
(20:19:30) Herman: I still have to work on "Review Process Documentation"
(20:19:55) Jens: - Send out an email to the TMC and to Reijer Copier, Johannes Wilden and Andreas Schmitz to inform about their nominations
(20:20:43) Jens: - Make sure that Reijer Copier has full access rights to the deegree code repository
(20:21:09) Jens: @Herman: Any progress on your action item?
(20:23:13) Herman: No, did not work yet on Process Documentation
(20:23:14) Herman: I propose to finish this item before December 1st.
(20:23:16) Herman: @Jens: Will you inform new members and say thanks to retiring members (if still relevant)
(20:23:46) Jens: Yes, this was meant by: "Send out an email to the TMC and to Reijer Copier, Johannes Wilden and Andreas Schmitz to inform about their nominations"
(20:24:26) Jens: (Noted December 1st)
(20:24:52) Jens: OK. Next agenda item is:
(20:25:01) Jens: * Tracker tasks review
(20:25:59) Jens: To shorten the process here, I'd suggest that I look through all the issues, close them as appropriate and discuss all remaining technical stuff with TMC and come back with all remaining strategic stuff to you (us)
(20:26:48) Jens: Does this sound reasonable?
(20:26:56) Klaus: good
(20:27:00) Herman: OK
(20:27:26) Jens: So, let's move to the next item:
(20:27:40) Jens: * Current situation wrt deegree releases
(20:27:57) Jens: ... which I think was brought up by Herman. Herman, the stage is yours.
(20:28:16) Herman: Thanks
(20:29:21) Herman: Currently, I have no idea how priorities are determined for next releases
(20:30:19) Jens: Welcome to the club!
(20:30:33) Herman: I like to be involved in discussing the contents of next releases
(20:30:41) Klaus: Do we have to discuss the release management guidelines or the features and timelines for the next releases?
(20:31:16) Herman: How about having a proposal from the TMC for future releases, discussing them in the PSC?
(20:31:21) Jens: In general I have the feeling that this is something we shall try to work out together with the TMC...
(20:31:43) Jens: @Herman: This would be more concrete, indeed.
(20:31:56) Jens: There is the notion of having a roadmap...
(20:32:26) Klaus: I think, the TMC shall tell us, what's necessary to do from a technicalö perspective
(20:32:38) Herman: There is a roadmap in the wiki, but it is unclear how it has been compiled
(20:32:59) Klaus: the PSC shall develop gaoas for the next releases
(20:33:01) Herman: I like to discuss features and timelines of future realeases.
(20:34:15) Herman: I understand that prioirties are not only determined by the PSC, but foremost thorugh paid projects, nevertheless the PSC should be involved.
(20:35:20) Jens: Basically, this all requires a well-defined process for setting up and managing the roadmap.
(20:35:32) Jens: Such a process does not exist today, I'd say.
(20:35:32) Herman: Indeed
(20:35:40) Klaus: I think there are 3 perspectives:
(20:35:44) Klaus: 1.What is necessary to maintain application?
(20:36:02) Klaus: 2. What dioo the customers want and pay?
(20:36:37) Klaus: 3. What do we think, the users will need (mostly without knowing that)
(20:37:13) Jens: Do you mean technical requirements with "1.What is necessary to maintain application?"?
(20:37:44) Jens: Like make sure that the code still does what it is supposed to do and have no errors and ...
(20:37:50) Klaus: 1. yes
(20:38:42) Klaus: I think 1. should be monitored by the TMC
(20:38:50) Jens: agreed
(20:39:27) Herman: How about discussing the roadmap subject at the "deegree summit", based on a draft proposal from TMC and PMC memebers?
(20:40:11) Jens: Good idea. That coincidents with my feeling (above): " In general I have the feeling that this is something we shall try to work out together with the TMC..."
(20:40:35) Jens: But at the same time we must be operational with releases, even without deegree summits...
(20:41:00) Jens: Perhaps we could bring in a proposal for the intended process to the first summit?
(20:41:10) Jens: Looking at time, there are release dates. When something goes out. Ready.
(20:41:25) Jens: This also means that a new release cycle begins.
(20:42:11) Jens: We shall put the planning for next or the next + 1 release at the end of such a cycle (or somewhere in between).
(20:42:27) Jens: We just need some kind of periodic actions.
(20:42:30) Klaus: right
(20:42:41) Herman: Yes
(20:44:30) Jens: OK. I think we shall make this an action to one of us.
(20:44:32) Herman: Let's ask the TMC for a proposal including a feature list and dead-line for the 3.2 release.
(20:45:59) Jens: ... and have this as another input to the summit.
(20:46:24) Herman: When will we have the summit? Soon?
(20:46:38) Jens: Thus two "papers" for the summit on the table: PSC's paper on the release planning process, TMC's paper on 3.2
(20:46:51) Klaus: We have an item [#838] Release management guidelines
(20:47:17) Jens: Well the summit is just up to us (we have an agenda item on that)
(20:47:52) Klaus: The release strategy should be part of the guidelines
(20:48:17) Jens: @Klaus: You are right. We just catch up with this one.
(20:48:17) Herman: Indeed
(20:49:16) Jens: Shall I take an action on this? (Release management guidelines AKA PSC's paper on the release planning process)
(20:49:33) Klaus: I think there is a lot of concepts, guidelines how to organise releases and versioning
(20:49:34) Herman: Yes, please
(20:50:14) Klaus: agreed
(20:50:37) Jens: Anything else on releases?
(20:50:57) Herman: No, enough for now
(20:51:02) Klaus: no
(20:52:39) Jens: BTW I just closed #838 as this was an old one. Action is now to TMC. This was deegree 2 stuff. Not of the general type we just discussed.
(20:53:07) Jens: OK. Next agenda item is: Public relation activities / Outreach plan OSGeo annual report 2010 deegree day 2012 Website and Wiki (documentation) Wikipedia GIS page
(20:53:47) Jens: Do you see any other sub-items for "Public relation activities / Outreach plan"?
(20:54:14) Jens: I mean other than we have: 1) OSGeo annual report 2010 2) deegree day 2012 3) Website and Wiki (documentation) 4) Wikipedia GIS page
(20:54:54) Herman: Do you consider "list of demos /applications" as a new one?
(20:55:12) Jens: Yes
(20:55:18) Klaus: No further items, but I see relations between OSGeo annual report 2010 and the release diskussion.
(20:55:39) Jens: Why that relation?
(20:56:09) Klaus: I think a good OSGEO report will inform about release planning and realisation
(20:56:32) Jens: OK. I see.
(20:57:17) Jens: Looking at 1) OSGeo annual report 2010, I must confess, I don't know about the status of that. Perhaps we are already too late.
(20:57:35) Jens: And I cannot afford to do any work on that within the next two weeks...
(21:00:12) Klaus: Is it necessary to write more than 1 or 2 pages?
(21:00:39) Jens: No. And it does not look good for the other projects and chapters as well. Take a look at http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Category:Reports_2010
(21:00:42) Herman: I don't think so.
(21:01:11) Jens: ... in comparison to e.g. http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Category:Reports_2009 or http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Category:Reports_2008
(21:01:52) Jens: Perhaps, it's a good idea to ask about status and dead line. I'll do this right now.
(21:02:13) Klaus: about half of the project have delivered a report 2009
(21:02:59) Jens: Could you in the meantime go on with 2) deegree day 2012?
(21:03:51) Herman: I suggest that Klaus Greve makes a TOC and we ask all PSC and TMC members for input which is then transformed into a readable report by Klaus
(21:04:22) Klaus: sure. First thing: We have to inform our community that deegree days follow an biannual scheme from on
(21:05:14) Klaus: Second. We need an idea: What is the messsage of deegree day 2012? The last one was deegree 3
(21:07:05) Jens: (back again from writing an email to sunburned surveyor)
(21:07:17) Klaus: @Hermann TOC: 1. Key Accomplishments , 2. Areas for Improvement /Releases 3. Opportunities to Help 4. Outlook for 2011 - o.k.?
(21:07:31) Herman: OK
(21:07:59) Jens: I think the TOC for the report is more or less a fixed structure. It's in the wiki. Look at one of the other or the older reports.
(21:08:12) Herman: Indeed
(21:08:14) Klaus: I did
(21:09:04) Jens: You are right. These are the topics we always covered.
(21:10:04) Jens: Proposal: As soon as we know we are not too late, I'll set up the page on the OSGeo wiki and ask all of us and the TMC for input.
(21:10:21) Klaus: good
(21:10:24) Herman: agreed
(21:10:40) Klaus: back to deegree day 12
(21:10:44) Jens: Back to deegree day then? I pretty much like what Klaus said...
(21:11:21) Herman: What will the message, deegree3 successes?
(21:11:28) Jens: My favourite message is INSPIRE
(21:11:44) Jens: I mean, what deegree can do here...
(21:12:49) Klaus: Could we find an hiph light milestone within the JRC Project and adjust the date for the event after that?
(21:13:19) Herman: Yes, deegree3 needs more INSPIRE implementations, Requirements for the Download Service are a big opportunity for d3
(21:14:29) Jens: I would not like to bind the event too tight to one single project.
(21:14:30) Klaus: hiph = high + hip
(21:15:10) Jens: It is always difficult enough to find a good date for the event...
(21:15:28) Klaus: The Inspire portal is the mother of Inspire projects
(21:15:58) Herman: Organizations just finished (hopefully) the View Service and now start thinking about the Download Service
(21:17:04) Jens: So, how could we move this?
(21:17:35) Klaus: but for the message we have to kus on something, the programe can be much broader
(21:17:49) Klaus: fokus , sorry
(21:18:13) Jens: sounds good.
(21:18:18) Herman: INSPIRE is OK, let's schedule dd 2012 in spring 2012
(21:18:33) Jens: late spring?
(21:18:40) Jens: like May?
(21:18:46) Herman: March/April
(21:19:04) Jens: That's ambitious as a schedule...
(21:19:19) Herman: Next INSPIRE dead-line is in June
(21:20:21) Jens: You are right, but ...
(21:21:25) Klaus: Eastern ist April 8th/9th - so it could be difficult to find a day im March/April
(21:22:07) Herman: Second half of April perhaps?
(21:22:36) Jens: Perhaps. With some co-operative action...
(21:22:56) Jens: ... I mean the years before most of the work has been done by lat/lon.
(21:23:23) Jens: I do not think that we'd be able to do this on our own with this tight time line
(21:24:00) Herman: We (Arie Kraak) can assist, perhaps Markus&Andreas as well?
(21:24:16) Jens: Yes, perhaps.
(21:24:37) Jens: How about university resources?
(21:25:46) Klaus: Sure, we will assist, but are short in ressoureces in April
(21:25:48) Jens: (I have to correct myself: I mean the years before most of the work has been done by lat/lon, supported by Bonn University)
(21:27:08) Jens: I just do not have a good feeling with that short time line and the requirement to make it a success...
(21:27:43) Herman: So, it will be in May?
(21:28:58) Jens: which would at least be a bit better than April. Just a bit. But we could try. Find more active contributors first. Share actions to be taken.
(21:29:32) Jens: Klaus, you mentioned that letter to the community...
(21:29:34) Klaus: right
(21:31:00) Jens: ... is this something you would like to do? On behalf of the PSC let the community (basically mailing list members) know about the plans?
(21:31:25) Jens: Only the biannual idea. Not yet the May date.
(21:31:49) Jens: And perhaps already the hiph thing...
(21:32:16) Klaus: biannual without a date?
(21:33:22) Jens: Yepp. Just the rough idea to do it before summer season.
(21:33:30) Jens: Or in the first half of 2012.
(21:34:41) Klaus: No, I think that's miscommunication. We have to announce a day
(21:35:22) Herman: I agree, it is better to announce a day...
(21:35:56) Jens: OK. I obviously got that wrong.
(21:36:47) Jens: So short-term actions to all of us to check potential resources and potential event dates in May.
(21:37:18) Jens: Any other ideas for potential resources other than our's and those already mentioned?
(21:38:14) Herman: I think week 19, 7-11 May, is the best week to have deegree day
(21:38:44) Jens: OK. We'll check this.
(21:39:14) Jens: (As it is quite late already) Can we continue same time same place next week?
(21:39:43) Herman: Is there a check-list to organize deegree day? Will be helpfull to divide the labour.
(21:39:53) Jens: Yes, that exists.
(21:40:08) Herman: Please email it
(21:40:21) Jens: I'll try to find someone to put it on the wiki.
(21:40:41) Herman: I have another 15 minutes
(21:40:52) Jens: But I can also send an email. I think it's in German language...
(21:41:05) Herman: German is OK
(21:41:24) Jens: 15 minutes is fine. But nevertheless: Can we then continue same time same place next week?
(21:42:01) Herman: Yes, next week, same day and time are OK
(21:42:29) Klaus: Sorry, I'm in Greifswald next week, Wednesday - Friday
(21:42:57) Herman: How about Tuesday 22-11?
(21:43:06) Jens: Tuesday then? Fine with me.
(21:43:17) Jens: (just mailing the dd planning document...)
(21:44:03) Klaus: Sorry, I have a meeting on Monday evening, then Greifswald the end of week. I need Tuesday evening to organise my life
(21:44:49) Jens: Tuesday 29th?
(21:45:22) Herman: OK
(21:45:54) Klaus: sorry, no
(21:45:54) Jens: ... in the meantime Herman and me can try to move things a bit forward (if you agree, Klaus)
(21:46:03) Klaus: I agree
(21:46:29) Jens: Too bad (for the next meeting appointment)
(21:46:54) Jens: I'll set up a doodle then (including weekend options?)
(21:47:29) Herman: Friday evening is OK,not Saterday or Sunday
(21:47:46) Jens: Noted.
(21:49:15) Herman: @Jens: Please summarize our decisions wrt deegree day 2012
(21:49:28) Jens: Right now?
(21:49:50) Klaus: let me try:
(21:50:07) Klaus: We ned a message - Inspire is preferred
(21:50:09) Klaus: need
(21:50:50) Klaus: we have to find da day - maybe in relation to Inspire or the JRC project
(21:51:12) Klaus: We need support/supporters
(21:51:23) Klaus: Date is not befor May
(21:52:11) Herman: letter to community?
(21:52:17) Klaus: We need to figure out a date when we know the dd date and communicate date, message and the biannual scheme
(21:52:30) Jens: May I add: We want to fix the date until end of November?
(21:52:43) Klaus: if possible
(21:53:44) Jens: If we do not find a common appointment for our next meeting until then, we just do it asynchronously, by email.
(21:54:00) Klaus: good
(21:54:20) Jens: This would allow to get the announcement out in Week 49
(21:54:38) Herman: Or Jens and me can have a Skype session
(21:54:55) Jens: we can
(21:55:33) Jens: So that's it for today?
(21:55:43) Klaus: I think so
(21:56:00) Herman: Let's have the Skype session next Tuesday evening
(21:56:14) Jens: OK.
(21:56:39) Herman: That's it then.
(21:57:01) Jens: I'll do the meeting documentation as usual and set up the doodle for our next meeting.
(21:57:06) Klaus: Thank
(21:57:10) Herman: Thanks
(21:57:16) Klaus: s
(21:57:25) Jens: OK. Bye then.
(21:57:33) Herman: Bye
(21:57:39) Klaus: Bye