(14:29:00) Das Thema für #deegree ist: Welcome to deegree, an OSGeo project. Visit the main project page at http://deegree.org and our wiki at http://wiki.deegree.org with lots of extra info. Check out a running system at http://demo.deegree.org and follow us on twitter @deegree_org.
(14:29:17) ndrs [~stranger@static-87-79-89-38.netcologne.de] hat den Raum betreten.
(14:29:18) Modus (+o ndrs) von ChanServ
(14:29:44) jwilden [~wilden@static-87-79-89-38.netcologne.de] hat den Raum betreten.
(14:30:28) jwilden: Hello
(14:30:33) copierrj: hi
(14:30:39) MarkusSchneider: hi
(14:30:55) ndrs: Hi
(14:31:38) MarkusSchneider: we're still waiting for torsten, did you all check Jens' comments?
(14:31:46) ndrs: yep
(14:31:51) MarkusSchneider: nope
(14:32:00) MarkusSchneider: still reading
(14:32:08) copierrj: me2
(14:33:45) tfr [574f5926@gateway/web/freenode/ip.] hat den Raum betreten.
(14:34:01) tfr: Hello everybody
(14:34:08) jwilden: Hello
(14:34:23) MarkusSchneider: hi
(14:34:30) copierrj: hi
(14:34:53) MarkusSchneider: ok, now just andreas needs to get back :-)
(14:36:01) ndrs: yes, I'm here
(14:36:14) MarkusSchneider: it's good to see that you're all back after the summer vacation.
(14:36:32) MarkusSchneider: i believe we got quite some replies from the psc to start with
(14:36:37) tfr: Can you point us to todays agenda please
(14:37:00) MarkusSchneider: Agenda just consists of the open tmc tracker items at: http://wald.intevation.org/tracker/?atid=303&group_id=27&func=browse
(14:37:07) MarkusSchneider: unless somebody wants to add something
(14:37:15) MarkusSchneider: anything special?
(14:37:48) ndrs: not from me
(14:38:02) copierrj: no
(14:38:13) jwilden: nope
(14:38:17) MarkusSchneider: ok, so lets start with #6321, shall we?
(14:39:21) MarkusSchneider: as far as i remember, we didn't compile a list of requirements yet
(14:39:51) copierrj: no we didn't
(14:40:10) tfr: We still have to answer PSC's questions. see http://wiki.deegree.org/deegreeWiki/PscMeeting/PscMeeting20120716
(14:40:12) MarkusSchneider: maybe we collect a list of the major things that come to mind
(14:40:47) ndrs: OpenSource alternative: Redmine comes to mind again
(14:40:57) tfr: regarding github the questions are: "How to make use of the distributed repository for deegree?", "How to prevent risks, like a branch and fork mess?" (one-click fork), "How to maintain the projects procedures like granting access rights to the repository?"
(14:41:16) MarkusSchneider: #6321 is abouzt JIRA, not about github
(14:41:26) MarkusSchneider: we come to that later :-)
(14:41:47) MarkusSchneider: http://wald.intevation.org/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=6321&group_id=27&atid=303
(14:41:47) tfr: yep wrong link. than keep it in mind when we talk about github
(14:41:49) ndrs: to quote: Please consider PSC's position as described in the 2012-07-16 meeting notes: - Tracker choice is depending on the non-open source nature of JIRA. - Whenever there is an adequate open source solution for our requirements, we shall use that. To that regard the TMC response did not adress the requirements question raised in the last PSC meeting. BTW it is clear that we will move away from wald here. - In case of the use of JIRA we h
(14:41:54) MarkusSchneider: ok
(14:42:30) MarkusSchneider: JIRA is not open source software. Introduces the issue of vendor lock-in and the implicit weakening of the open source stack. PSC would like to see a requirements analysis and comparison of available tools with a preference for an open source solution. Further more we have the feeling that an integration of the code repository and the tracker might be needed. So if the tracker investigation has an effect on the code repository then immediate notification is needed.
(14:42:54) MarkusSchneider: this is what i can find on that topic from the PSC. did i miss anything?
(14:44:14) MarkusSchneider: i believe we had the comparison already. it was provided by Reijer.
(14:44:48) MarkusSchneider: in order to answer the psc's questions, we would have to collect our requirements.
(14:45:10) tfr: Ok, can you send us the link to that comparison matrix?
(14:45:42) ndrs: I don't think we have such a matrix. A comparison matrix can be found on Wikipeida
(14:45:49) ndrs: s/Wikipeida/Wikipedia/
(14:46:04) MarkusSchneider: reijer? i think you had a link to the wikipedia page when we discussed that.
(14:46:31) copierrj: I'm trying to find our discussion in the irc logs...
(14:46:35) ndrs: still, we had questions for the PSC as well, which have not been answered AFAIR
(14:46:57) jwilden: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_issue_tracking_systems
(14:47:00) ndrs: for example: who is going to carry the cost of administration if we use a self-hosted OpenSource solution
(14:47:04) jwilden: Wrong one
(14:47:45) MarkusSchneider: IRC log here: http://wiki.deegree.org/deegreeWiki/TmcMeeting/TmcMeeting20120710?action=AttachFile&do=view&target=deegree-tmc-meeting_irclog_2012-07-10.html
(14:48:16) ndrs: I think that's exactly the kind of question the PSC must be able to answer. I believe, like Markus said, if it's an issue tracker with proper integration with our other systems (CI, code repo), we want it, regardless of whether it's OpenSource or not
(14:48:33) copierrj: also: http://wiki.deegree.org/deegreeWiki/TmcMeeting/TmcMeeting20120529?action=AttachFile&do=view&target=deegree-tmc-meeting_irclog_2012-05-29.html
(14:48:44) ndrs: and since in the past administration was always an issue, I personally would like to see it solved
(14:48:58) jwilden: Same here
(14:49:05) MarkusSchneider: i still would suggest to collect our requirements in a formal way
(14:49:26) MarkusSchneider: - good integration with git
(14:49:29) copierrj: do you have other specific requirements besides the scm integration?
(14:49:55) MarkusSchneider: - modern, hasslefree, friendly web interface
(14:50:11) ndrs: I think configurability regarding components, versions, etc., yes, hasslefree!!!, is important
(14:50:17) ndrs: probably also having multiple admins
(14:50:30) MarkusSchneider: - easy administration of users
(14:50:35) tfr: Can we please come back to the questions PSC raised. And compile a list of requirements in inssue #6321
(14:50:36) ndrs: multi project support
(14:50:54) ndrs: tfr: we're listing the requirements, are we not?
(14:51:01) MarkusSchneider: ??
(14:51:20) tfr: this can happen offline. don't see the need to start and do it now
(14:52:00) MarkusSchneider: i agree to compile that list later, but i think it is a good idea to see what the individual members consider important...
(14:52:09) tfr: Ok.
(14:52:09) MarkusSchneider: anything important missing?
(14:52:17) ndrs: for me, that's it
(14:52:31) MarkusSchneider: mailing list integration?
(14:52:32) copierrj: I don't have anything to add currently
(14:52:44) jwilden: Me neither
(14:52:48) MarkusSchneider: good.
(14:52:49) tfr: what we need is an answer how to migrate (import/export) issues from and to several other tracker
(14:53:19) copierrj: do we need this for open source trackers or only for JIRA?
(14:53:33) ndrs: https://confluence.atlassian.com/display/JIRA/Importing+Data+from+Trac
(14:54:04) MarkusSchneider: so we should research that for JIRA, right?
(14:54:23) MarkusSchneider: volunteers?
(14:54:25) MarkusSchneider: :-)
(14:54:38) MarkusSchneider: i can do it
(14:54:43) ndrs: well, since we don't know where/if we'll switch FROM JIRA or the new tracker anytime soon...
(14:55:05) ndrs: probably the tracker++ does not exist yet which we'll migrate to
(14:55:14) MarkusSchneider: any more questions left that we need to cover?
(14:55:28) MarkusSchneider: ok
(14:55:39) MarkusSchneider: #6320 then
(14:55:42) tfr: no, please add this to ticket 6321
(14:55:59) MarkusSchneider: of course
(14:56:38) MarkusSchneider: Nexus is up and running and working at repo.deegree.org
(14:57:04) tfr: Ok. Can we give the community and PSC more information about that change?
(14:57:10) MarkusSchneider: deegree-3.2, 3.1 and 3.0 branches are switched
(14:57:15) MarkusSchneider: deegree 2 as well
(14:57:39) MarkusSchneider: I believe we should prepare a message to the deegree lists
(14:57:54) tfr: The question or statement by PSC was: "Administrators (Johannes and Jeronimo) haven't been able so far to rebuild the needed access constraints with Nexus. The TMC is asked for advice here. "
(14:58:16) tfr: IMO this is easy to prove that this is not the case anymore.
(14:58:16) ndrs: yes, we were able to solve these problems
(14:58:34) ndrs: like Markus said, it's up and running
(14:58:34) tfr: Is this somewhere documented?
(14:58:56) ndrs: yes, but only in the internal administrator tracker of lat/lon
(14:59:20) MarkusSchneider: maybe having a deegree infrastructure (wiki) page would be a good idea
(14:59:22) tfr: Than action point is to add this info to the #[#6320]
(14:59:44) MarkusSchneider: agreed
(15:00:03) ndrs: next?
(15:00:04) tfr: And an update of the http://www.deegree.org/Community page as well
(15:00:20) tfr: yes
(15:00:26) ndrs: who has access to the website?
(15:00:35) jwilden: I do
(15:00:39) ndrs: is this documented somewhere?
(15:00:40) MarkusSchneider: yes, who can do this?
(15:01:10) tfr: Johannes can add this information the the community page
(15:01:28) jwilden: I still think I should not be the only one who has access to the site...
(15:02:33) MarkusSchneider: so johannes, will you take the necessary actions to close #6320?
(15:02:58) jwilden: As I am the only one who can, yes of course ;)
(15:03:11) MarkusSchneider: good
(15:03:33) MarkusSchneider: still no progress on #6297...
(15:04:02) MarkusSchneider: depends on #6298
(15:04:22) MarkusSchneider: #6298.
(15:05:01) MarkusSchneider: i really favor an automated process for building this list.
(15:05:20) MarkusSchneider: i believe we will have to get the Maven Site building again.
(15:05:25) ndrs: then we postpone it until we have time for this?
(15:05:36) MarkusSchneider: agreed
(15:05:47) MarkusSchneider: #1275 then?
(15:05:55) tfr: hold on
(15:06:08) MarkusSchneider: ok
(15:06:40) tfr: can we add to ticket #6298 the info that this list should be compiled automatically and that this site should be build with maven
(15:06:48) MarkusSchneider: +1
(15:07:19) jwilden: +1
(15:07:32) copierrj: +1
(15:08:08) ndrs: +1
(15:08:12) MarkusSchneider: ok
(15:08:34) tfr: Can we decribe the task what needs to be done to fix the maven site build?
(15:09:28) MarkusSchneider: Well, basically somebody needs to try to get it working again.
(15:10:07) tfr: Ok, I will file then a bug report to http://tracker.deegree.org/deegree-services
(15:10:25) MarkusSchneider: good
(15:10:54) ndrs: next?
(15:10:54) ndrs: wait for me...
(15:11:02) MarkusSchneider: I added remarks to #6298 as well
(15:11:25) MarkusSchneider: #1275 then?
(15:12:10) MarkusSchneider: maybe this is actually another requirement for the tracker: to make this process work smoothly
(15:12:35) jwilden: agreed
(15:12:37) ndrs: yes, that's what I meant with configurability of components etc.
(15:13:18) MarkusSchneider: ok, i would put that on the list then
(15:13:23) ndrs: +1
(15:13:42) jwilden: +1
(15:13:54) copierrj: +1
(15:14:21) MarkusSchneider: any feelings from you, torsten?
(15:14:47) MarkusSchneider: move to #6322 then?
(15:15:06) jwilden: yes please
(15:15:13) copierrj: ok
(15:15:21) ndrs: regarding github the questions are: "How to make use of the distributed repository for deegree?", "How to prevent risks, like a branch and fork mess?" (one-click fork), "How to maintain the projects procedures like granting access rights to the repository?"
(15:16:35) ndrs: regarding the second question: we do not want to prevent this, we want many branches and forks because that shows a big community
(15:17:04) ndrs: it's how we make use of the distributed repository for deegree: to enable easy contributions
(15:17:07) MarkusSchneider: I think it is important to line out that git-forking is not a mess, but what you want
(15:17:22) MarkusSchneider: in order to make the development of extensions easier
(15:17:24) ndrs: the fork mess would not be in our master repository
(15:17:36) ndrs: it would be as clean as our svn repo
(15:17:43) MarkusSchneider: right. we should compile that in an email then
(15:18:01) copierrj: we should probably explain the difference between private and public repos
(15:18:02) tfr: Well, the fork is not the issue the merge (push/pull) should be explained.
(15:18:18) tfr: and local and remote
(15:18:36) ndrs: I still don't see why we need to explain it if you can just read a good article from the 1000s out there
(15:18:42) MarkusSchneider: torsten, i think we already decided to prepare this email together, right?
(15:18:45) ndrs: or a book
(15:18:59) copierrj: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Git_%28software%29
(15:19:04) copierrj: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distributed_revision_control
(15:19:16) copierrj: basically...
(15:19:20) tfr: then extract this info and add it to the issue 6322, please
(15:19:31) MarkusSchneider: (02:53:56 PM) markusschneider: good. there also the pending task of answering some of the PSC questions. assigned to torsten and
(15:19:36) MarkusSchneider: me
(15:19:41) MarkusSchneider: ok
(15:19:56) MarkusSchneider: is there anything to be added?
(15:20:12) MarkusSchneider: then it's only #6294 left
(15:20:52) jwilden: Sorry, no progress
(15:21:43) MarkusSchneider: any ideas to get this going again?
(15:21:57) jwilden: Assistance would be nice
(15:22:42) MarkusSchneider: well...
(15:22:47) jwilden: ...
(15:23:10) MarkusSchneider: i am willing to help once i have time for it...
(15:23:16) ndrs: me too
(15:23:22) MarkusSchneider: but not right away
(15:23:38) jwilden: Then postpone it again?!
(15:23:44) ndrs: yep
(15:23:47) MarkusSchneider: +1
(15:24:01) copierrj: +1
(15:24:31) MarkusSchneider: these were all open tmc items. anything else to be discussed?
(15:24:51) jwilden: No
(15:24:59) ndrs: I'm done
(15:25:05) copierrj: no
(15:25:08) tfr: for next tmc meeting an update of the roadmap/release paln
(15:26:01) MarkusSchneider: of course, we can put that on the agenda
(15:26:01) ndrs: why/how are we going to do that? And who?
(15:26:07) jwilden: If you have an overview of what is about to come (features & stuff) go ahead
(15:26:51) ndrs: MarkusSchneider: +1
(15:26:55) MarkusSchneider: i suggest to discuss that next time. as an official item. anything else?
(15:27:09) jwilden: Markus +1
(15:27:38) MarkusSchneider: see you in two weeks then. thanks.
(15:27:45) ndrs: ok, bye
(15:28:03) copierrj: cu