(02:39:15 PM) The topic for #deegree is: Welcome to deegree, an OSGeo project. Visit the main project page at http://deegree.org and our wiki at http://wiki.deegree.org with lots of extra info. Check out a running system at http://demo.deegree.org and follow us on twitter @deegree_org.
(02:39:15 PM) mode (+o ndrs) by ChanServ
(02:39:16 PM) jwilden [~wilden@static-87-79-89-38.netcologne.de] entered the room.
(02:39:22 PM) ndrs: sorry for being late
(02:39:24 PM) jwilden: Sorry for beeing late
(02:40:51 PM) markusschneider: Ok, meeting page here: http://wiki.deegree.org/deegreeWiki/TmcMeeting/TmcMeeting20120710
(02:41:07 PM) markusschneider: Anything missing from the agenda?
(02:41:45 PM) jwilden: Nope
(02:41:54 PM) copierrj: Open Source issue tracker alternatives
(02:42:00 PM) markusschneider: Exactly!
(02:42:15 PM) markusschneider: Ok, I would suggest to add that to the end...
(02:42:21 PM) copierrj: ok
(02:42:25 PM) jwilden: ok
(02:42:34 PM) markusschneider: Good, lets have a look at the open issues...
(02:42:50 PM) markusschneider: I believe there are no updates...
(02:42:55 PM) markusschneider: At least not from my side.
(02:43:01 PM) markusschneider: :-(
(02:43:17 PM) markusschneider: Sorry again for not progressing...
(02:43:19 PM) jwilden: Same here, there was just no time the past weeks
(02:43:32 PM) markusschneider: Still need to find some time to do the module list update.
(02:43:51 PM) ndrs: at least I wrote that PSC email
(02:44:07 PM) jwilden: Good job btw
(02:44:10 PM) markusschneider: Any private replies so far?
(02:44:17 PM) ndrs: no, nothing
(02:44:30 PM) markusschneider: Yes, thanks for putting the questions together.
(02:44:43 PM) markusschneider: I am also very much looking forward for the answers.
(02:45:00 PM) markusschneider: But now to the Open Source alternatives.
(02:45:08 PM) markusschneider: Reijer?
(02:45:20 PM) copierrj: I've evaluated the list at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_issue_tracking_systems
(02:45:34 PM) markusschneider: Wow. Pretty long.
(02:45:43 PM) copierrj: few are open source
(02:46:03 PM) copierrj: two of them seem quite modern (at least compared to trac)
(02:46:15 PM) copierrj: Launchpad and Redmine
(02:46:39 PM) copierrj: Launchpad developed and used by Canonical/Ubuntu
(02:46:50 PM) markusschneider: My personal experience with Redmine is rather good.
(02:47:12 PM) copierrj: Redmine looks like trac++
(02:47:21 PM) ndrs: yep, agreed. But we'd still need to host it ourselves, right?
(02:47:21 PM) copierrj: modern codebase + a lot more features
(02:47:45 PM) copierrj: yes, and it's ruby. Something I'm not familiar with
(02:48:11 PM) markusschneider: BTW, there's a more active fork of Redmine as well.
(02:48:16 PM) copierrj: Redmine also has decent git integration
(02:48:25 PM) markusschneider: https://www.chiliproject.org/
(02:49:27 PM) jwilden: Seems pretty nice
(02:49:51 PM) markusschneider: What can you tell us about Launchpad?
(02:50:12 PM) copierrj: looks great but only supports bazaar by default
(02:50:18 PM) copierrj: it does support git mirroring
(02:50:56 PM) copierrj: and a separate git plugin
(02:50:57 PM) markusschneider: Would there be a reason to favor it over Redmine/Chili Project?
(02:51:44 PM) copierrj: lots of usage
(02:51:53 PM) copierrj: 23,500 projects claimed
(02:51:56 PM) markusschneider: Actually, it seems to be hosted!?
(02:52:01 PM) markusschneider: https://launchpad.net/
(02:52:42 PM) copierrj: https://launchpad.net/launchpad-project
(02:52:43 PM) markusschneider: It seems to be pretty close to Ubuntu, though...
(02:52:48 PM) markusschneider: "Ubuntu package building and hosting"
(02:52:58 PM) jwilden: #1
(02:53:35 PM) markusschneider: I wonder if you would find any Java-projects there.
(02:53:51 PM) markusschneider: Actually yes.
(02:54:00 PM) markusschneider: But these all seem to be Ubuntu packages.
(02:54:22 PM) markusschneider: I believe the hosted version would not really be the way to go then...
(02:54:27 PM) copierrj: it is basically their own private project
(02:54:35 PM) copierrj: tracker
(02:55:12 PM) markusschneider: Is anybody other then Canonical running an instance of it?
(02:55:22 PM) copierrj: don't know
(02:55:24 PM) ndrs: if we're going to host it ourselves, I believe chiliproject or redmine would be more suited to our needs
(02:55:30 PM) markusschneider: agreed
(02:55:40 PM) copierrj: me2
(02:55:51 PM) jwilden: agreed
(02:55:53 PM) markusschneider: Thanks for the report.
(02:55:58 PM) copierrj: redmine looks really great to me
(02:56:17 PM) markusschneider: Can you tell anything about alternatives to github?
(02:56:33 PM) copierrj: as a hosted solution you mean?
(02:56:39 PM) markusschneider: I believe the large user base and the easy pull requests is a big plus.
(02:56:57 PM) markusschneider: Could really lead to more contributions, IMHO.
(02:56:58 PM) markusschneider: yes
(02:57:15 PM) markusschneider: Or a web interface for git with user management/wiki
(02:57:17 PM) copierrj: agreed, but the PSC seems to favor our own setup
(02:57:30 PM) copierrj: on deegree.org
(02:57:54 PM) markusschneider: Yes, I am aware of that.
(02:58:17 PM) markusschneider: So what would that be with regard to a web interface?
(02:59:20 PM) markusschneider: I wonder how we would manage developer accounts in the future.
(03:00:34 PM) copierrj: redmine seems to support LDAP, so it's just a matter of proper maintenance....
(03:00:49 PM) ndrs: yes, 'just' that matter :-)
(03:01:10 PM) copierrj: ;-)
(03:01:20 PM) ndrs: I think for a self hosted solution we'd really need a concept first, what software to use, who is responsible for maintaining it etc.
(03:01:50 PM) markusschneider: Agreed.
(03:01:53 PM) copierrj: agreed, especially the responsibility part
(03:02:01 PM) jwilden: agreed
(03:02:05 PM) ndrs: anyway, since we already the PSC, we should wait for their answer first
(03:02:09 PM) markusschneider: Shall we summarize the required components again?
(03:02:19 PM) ndrs: sure
(03:02:28 PM) markusschneider: 1. git server
(03:02:36 PM) copierrj: 2. issue tracker
(03:02:42 PM) copierrj: 3. wiki?
(03:02:51 PM) ndrs: 3. is redmine
(03:03:01 PM) markusschneider: and 2.
(03:03:02 PM) ndrs: 4. account management
(03:03:26 PM) ndrs: 5. web interface for the git server
(03:03:26 PM) markusschneider: so it would be git+redmine+x
(03:03:39 PM) markusschneider: x = web interface/account management
(03:03:48 PM) copierrj: 4. any ldap administrator tool would probably do
(03:03:57 PM) copierrj: webbased would be nice though
(03:04:13 PM) markusschneider: Do you think this integrates with git and redmine at the same time?
(03:04:53 PM) copierrj: I don't know git that well, I've never used it in a multi-user setup
(03:05:07 PM) ndrs: I think you can hook anything up here
(03:05:21 PM) ndrs: it's a question of what http/ssh front end for git to use
(03:05:34 PM) copierrj: but probably takes a while to figure out
(03:05:55 PM) ndrs: true
(03:05:58 PM) markusschneider: right. I guess I would summarize this in the meeting notes. Anything else to consider?
(03:06:29 PM) copierrj: Redmine vs Chili Project?
(03:06:49 PM) ndrs: if it's a debian, I would go with redmine (5 Minute setup vs. half a day)
(03:06:55 PM) markusschneider: We probably would have to figure that out later...
(03:07:12 PM) ndrs: yep. We should still go with github if at all possible
(03:08:02 PM) markusschneider: I will collect the list of issues to be solved with our alternatives in the meeting notes as well.
(03:08:20 PM) copierrj: Are we going to suggest the redmine alternative to the PSC
(03:08:21 PM) copierrj: ?
(03:08:41 PM) markusschneider: Good question.
(03:08:48 PM) ndrs: no, IMHO it's only a fallback if JIRA is rejected
(03:09:24 PM) markusschneider: Personally, I also favor a github (+ maybe JIRA) solution.
(03:09:39 PM) markusschneider: And am waiting for the reply.
(03:09:46 PM) ndrs: yep, agreed
(03:10:12 PM) markusschneider: Reijer, are you fine with that?
(03:10:39 PM) markusschneider: Johannes?
(03:10:45 PM) copierrj: to me it depends on the amount of work required to install/maintain Redmine
(03:10:49 PM) jwilden: You know that I am ;)
(03:10:52 PM) copierrj: which is not clear to me yet
(03:11:39 PM) copierrj: github/jira is probably more convenient
(03:11:40 PM) markusschneider: agreed. we just don't know how much effort it will take to build and maintain a viable alternative to github+JIRA. and who will do it.
(03:11:51 PM) jwilden: true
(03:12:34 PM) markusschneider: I am not so sure about JIRA, but being on github should actually be seen as a statement to more openness and wanted contributions...
(03:12:39 PM) copierrj: I'm in favor to present this alternative to the PSC, but explicitly as a second choice
(03:12:58 PM) markusschneider: Do you guys second me on that?
(03:13:13 PM) ndrs: markusschneider: I second you
(03:13:15 PM) jwilden: I do
(03:13:37 PM) ndrs: we've already made it clear to the PSC I think
(03:14:07 PM) markusschneider: I was thinking about adding this as a statement to the TMC minutes.
(03:14:15 PM) ndrs: +1
(03:14:21 PM) markusschneider: @reijer: of course
(03:14:22 PM) jwilden: +1
(03:14:35 PM) copierrj: +1
(03:15:17 PM) markusschneider: I can understand the PSC view on JIRA a bit better.
(03:15:50 PM) markusschneider: After all moving away again from JIRA would suck.
(03:16:06 PM) markusschneider: This could be seen as a lock-in.
(03:16:12 PM) markusschneider: Anyway.
(03:16:12 PM) ndrs: but I think moving from one issue tracker to another always sucks
(03:16:22 PM) markusschneider: Right.
(03:16:27 PM) ndrs: migrating the trac issues to redmine will not be a cake walk
(03:16:42 PM) markusschneider: Anything else to add to the notes?
(03:17:03 PM) copierrj: but direct database access (= self hosted) is safer in that regard
(03:17:15 PM) markusschneider: in what regard?
(03:17:21 PM) markusschneider: migration?
(03:17:24 PM) jwilden: Moving away again
(03:17:26 PM) copierrj: you can always convert your issues by hand
(03:17:33 PM) copierrj: in sql
(03:17:37 PM) ndrs: hm, not sure, I guess exporting the issues in some sort of xml/json format from JIRA will also be possible
(03:17:37 PM) copierrj: which s*cks
(03:17:56 PM) ndrs: with as much pain to import them somewhere else
(03:18:59 PM) ndrs: so all in all, we should choose a tracking system with a future
(03:19:05 PM) ndrs: :-)
(03:19:07 PM) markusschneider: right. on the pro side, using JIRA may actually be seen as professional...
(03:19:14 PM) jwilden: !
(03:19:40 PM) markusschneider: anyway, we have to wait
(03:20:10 PM) ndrs: yep
(03:20:22 PM) copierrj: agreed, the next move is for PSC
(03:20:31 PM) markusschneider: thank you guys
(03:20:45 PM) markusschneider: see you in two weeks then, right?
(03:20:50 PM) copierrj: ok, cu
(03:20:51 PM) jwilden: Right!
(03:20:55 PM) ndrs: right, bye, and see you then
(03:20:57 PM) jwilden: See you, bye
(03:21:12 PM) markusschneider left the room.
(03:21:14 PM) copierrj: bye
(03:21:16 PM) copierrj left the room (quit: Quit: ChatZilla [Firefox 13.0.1/20120614114901]).