(01:48:45 PM) The topic for #deegree is: Welcome to deegree, an OSGeo project. Visit the main project page at http://deegree.org and our wiki at http://wiki.deegree.org with lots of extra info. Check out a running system at http://demo.deegree.org and follow us on twitter @deegree_org.
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(02:35:28 PM) markusschneider: Hi everyone!
(02:35:32 PM) copierrj: hi
(02:35:34 PM) ndrs1: hi
(02:35:38 PM) markusschneider: Welcome to the meeting.
(02:35:41 PM) jwilden: Hello
(02:35:46 PM) markusschneider: http://wiki.deegree.org/deegreeWiki/TmcMeeting/TmcMeeting20121126
(02:36:29 PM) markusschneider: Please check the agenda. Anything missing?
(02:37:30 PM) jwilden: Nope
(02:37:37 PM) copierrj: No
(02:37:53 PM) markusschneider: ok then
(02:38:16 PM) markusschneider: Let's start with the debriefing then
(02:38:40 PM) markusschneider: Maybe the TMC should give a short statement on the community space event as well?
(02:38:57 PM) markusschneider: In reply to Jens' mail maybe
(02:39:13 PM) markusschneider: Personally, I found the event very promising
(02:39:18 PM) ndrs1: hm, not sure. Shouldn't we focus on the actions instead?
(02:39:37 PM) ndrs1: but if you want to write a short mail, go ahead ;-)
(02:39:40 PM) markusschneider: who is in favor of a statement?
(02:39:46 PM) ndrs1: 0
(02:39:56 PM) jwilden: 0
(02:40:02 PM) copierrj: +0.5
(02:40:08 PM) jwilden: ^^
(02:40:20 PM) markusschneider: torsten?
(02:40:40 PM) copierrj: I think we should, but don't know exactly what we have to say
(02:40:44 PM) tfr: +100, sure the TMC has a statement we should share
(02:41:33 PM) markusschneider: do this now? or can we prepare this off-list?
(02:41:39 PM) markusschneider: off-chat
(02:41:43 PM) markusschneider: :-)
(02:42:11 PM) tfr: Some major topics have been discussed and these should be put into this statement
(02:42:15 PM) markusschneider: as the others don't have any big feelings here, maybe torsten, reijer and me should prepare this
(02:42:23 PM) ndrs1: sounds good
(02:42:24 PM) jwilden: +1
(02:42:27 PM) tfr: I would prefer to have a off-chat working group for this
(02:42:29 PM) copierrj: +1
(02:42:31 PM) markusschneider: +1
(02:42:54 PM) markusschneider: ok. i guess we all agree here then.
(02:42:55 PM) tfr: ok, then Markus, Reijer and Torsten are in this working group
(02:43:09 PM) tfr: good
(02:43:15 PM) markusschneider: ok then: deegree 3.2-pre12 release announcement
(02:43:24 PM) markusschneider: first let me say thank you for the last release
(02:43:33 PM) markusschneider: but i am missing any kind of announcement
(02:43:50 PM) tfr: yes, this is missing.
(02:43:52 PM) jwilden: Yeah I can write a short mail to the lists
(02:44:06 PM) jwilden: But still there is no tracking of new features etc
(02:44:10 PM) ndrs1: jwilden: sounds good. I don't think we need to include a changelog for pre releases
(02:44:19 PM) tfr: Can we extract the changes from the build server log?
(02:44:25 PM) jwilden: How do we generate the cahngelog?
(02:44:32 PM) markusschneider: I believe we're getting there...
(02:45:02 PM) jwilden: How? :)
(02:45:12 PM) copierrj: It would be nice if we can give at least some hints about what is in this release compared to previous releases
(02:45:19 PM) markusschneider: all this depends on the usability of the commit messages. in the future we should be able to always link them to a ticket in the tracker
(02:45:29 PM) jwilden: agreed @ reijer
(02:45:38 PM) markusschneider: producing the changelog will become very easy then
(02:45:58 PM) jwilden: same @ markus
(02:46:00 PM) ndrs1: I think my favourite website (GitHub) is also helping here. If we collect commits in pull requests we have a feature <-> pull request relation
(02:46:15 PM) markusschneider: Right. This will sure help a lot.
(02:46:20 PM) markusschneider: Suggestion:
(02:46:22 PM) jwilden: the question is: is there anything NOW we can use for 3.2-pre12?
(02:46:32 PM) copierrj: Are commit messages enough?
(02:46:35 PM) markusschneider: Skip the changelog this time. Include it next time.
(02:46:40 PM) ndrs1: +1
(02:46:43 PM) jwilden: Ok @ markus
(02:46:49 PM) tfr: for the pre12 release let's do it as in the ancient times - per hand
(02:47:21 PM) markusschneider: ok for me as well. who is going to do it?
(02:47:27 PM) tfr: the commit msg plus some further information
(02:47:45 PM) markusschneider: andreas is counting the number of commits. mom
(02:48:04 PM) tfr: BTW : hudson is down again
(02:48:13 PM) markusschneider: http://buildserver.deegree.org/
(02:48:38 PM) ndrs1: it's >200 commits
(02:49:04 PM) markusschneider: i guess you were checking http://hudson.deegree.org?
(02:49:35 PM) markusschneider: torsten?
(02:49:42 PM) tfr: was this on the mailing list?
(02:50:05 PM) tfr: I will add this to the Infrastructure wiki page
(02:50:53 PM) markusschneider: sorry, i meant: http://havola.lat-lon.de/hudson
(02:51:08 PM) ndrs1: tfr: yes, good idea.
(02:51:10 PM) markusschneider: this was never an official url, i guess. but yes, thank you torsten.
(02:51:41 PM) tfr: After having a look on the commit msg I suppose that we compile a bullet point list
(02:52:10 PM) markusschneider: who is we in this case? ;-)
(02:52:11 PM) tfr: the commit msg are quite vague
(02:52:19 PM) markusschneider: agreed
(02:52:22 PM) markusschneider: we need to improve here
(02:52:47 PM) jwilden: Like adding a ticket # to every commit
(02:53:07 PM) markusschneider: i believe the process andreas is going to propose will improve the situation here.
(02:53:37 PM) copierrj: @jwilden: enforce this '#'?
(02:53:52 PM) markusschneider: we should have a ticket for every pull-request into master and then: problem solved
(02:54:22 PM) markusschneider: I think we should postpone this discussion until we talked about this in detail. lets save time.
(02:54:29 PM) ndrs1: +1
(02:54:31 PM) jwilden: or like markus justsiad
(02:54:35 PM) jwilden: *just siad
(02:54:38 PM) jwilden: *said
(02:54:56 PM) copierrj: +1
(02:55:30 PM) markusschneider: torsten, ok?
(02:56:05 PM) markusschneider: countdown:
(02:56:09 PM) markusschneider: 5
(02:56:15 PM) markusschneider: 4
(02:56:20 PM) markusschneider: 3
(02:56:21 PM) tfr left the room (quit: Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
(02:56:25 PM) markusschneider: oops
(02:56:49 PM) tfr [574f5926@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.79.89.38] entered the room.
(02:56:53 PM) tfr: those who commited changes to the repo since pre11 write a short note to Johannes and me and we will compile this list
(02:57:12 PM) ndrs1: ok
(02:57:19 PM) markusschneider: well
(02:57:21 PM) markusschneider: +1
(02:57:42 PM) markusschneider: hello??????????????????ß
(02:57:52 PM) jwilden: +1
(02:57:55 PM) copierrj: +1
(02:57:58 PM) markusschneider: thank you
(02:58:13 PM) markusschneider: next topic: Move to GitHub
(02:58:23 PM) markusschneider: http://wald.intevation.org/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=6322&group_id=27&atid=303
(02:58:50 PM) markusschneider: andreas, can you please tell us again what you plan to do on friday
(02:59:12 PM) tfr: Thanks to Andreas that he is willing to do the work!
(02:59:19 PM) ndrs1: well, part of that we're going to discuss here, in particular what projects to move to github
(02:59:33 PM) ndrs1: deegree3 is a given
(02:59:38 PM) jwilden: agreed
(03:00:09 PM) markusschneider: my suggestion: start with deegree-webservices on friday. move the rest as required. add new repositories as needed.
(03:00:09 PM) tfr: I prepared a wiki page with a preliminary schedule
(03:00:13 PM) tfr: have a look on http://wiki.deegree.org/deegreeWiki/GithubMigrationRoadmap
(03:00:16 PM) markusschneider: great
(03:00:40 PM) ndrs1: looks good, thanks!
(03:00:56 PM) copierrj: nice
(03:00:57 PM) jwilden: I think thats a good plan
(03:01:04 PM) markusschneider: one note...
(03:01:27 PM) markusschneider: i believe the move to github has another potential.
(03:01:51 PM) markusschneider: in the past, it was never clearly defined what deegree actually is/consists of.
(03:02:08 PM) tfr: Yes, this is a nice sideeffect
(03:02:09 PM) markusschneider: especially, those deegree 2-cruft is a big challenge here.
(03:02:42 PM) markusschneider: therefore, i would pledge to only move "modules" that we actually agree to maintain in the future
(03:02:55 PM) markusschneider: and not any dead code
(03:03:07 PM) markusschneider: or keep it in "archive" at least
(03:03:11 PM) tfr: sure, this modules will move into SVN attic
(03:03:20 PM) markusschneider: SVN or git?
(03:03:53 PM) ndrs1: so who's going to decide what goes into the archive and what not?
(03:03:54 PM) tfr: Well, as you said, modules which are not maintained anymore stay in SVN (read-only) and will not be moved to Github
(03:04:11 PM) markusschneider: personally, i think no one wants to get confused by stuff like "/deegree2/viewer/"
(03:04:39 PM) copierrj: agreed, there's no point in migrated dead code
(03:04:44 PM) jwilden: True
(03:04:51 PM) tfr: I would put these modules in the section with the title "2.Note" (could be a better title)
(03:05:04 PM) markusschneider: ok
(03:05:29 PM) markusschneider: is there a broader discussion needed about dead code / first class deegree citizens
(03:05:31 PM) tfr: Ok, then please tell me what is dead code.
(03:05:38 PM) markusschneider: i am not sure
(03:05:42 PM) markusschneider: :-)
(03:05:46 PM) markusschneider: /deegree2/viewer/
(03:05:49 PM) ndrs1: yes, dead
(03:06:02 PM) ndrs1: /deegree2/test/ dead
(03:06:15 PM) markusschneider: /deegree2/apps/services-template/?
(03:06:15 PM) ndrs1: /deegree2/apps/services-template/ dead
(03:06:22 PM) markusschneider: /deegree2/apps/owswatch/?
(03:06:26 PM) ndrs1: dead?
(03:06:30 PM) ndrs1: I've never used it
(03:06:34 PM) jwilden: I think so
(03:06:41 PM) markusschneider: i would like to propose an alternative approach.
(03:07:02 PM) tfr: Yes, please go ahead
(03:07:03 PM) markusschneider: let's make a positive list. don't migrate the rest
(03:07:09 PM) markusschneider: at least not now
(03:07:13 PM) copierrj: +1
(03:07:15 PM) tfr: Agreed
(03:07:17 PM) jwilden: +1
(03:07:19 PM) markusschneider: if somebody asks for it, we decide
(03:07:20 PM) ndrs1: +1
(03:07:29 PM) copierrj: the current svn isn't going away
(03:07:30 PM) markusschneider: proposals for the positive list?
Unknown command.
(03:08:07 PM) ndrs1: /deegree3
(03:08:09 PM) markusschneider: +1
(03:08:16 PM) copierrj: how about only deegree3 + deegree2-igeodesktop + deegree2-base (for now)
(03:08:17 PM) tfr: Right but as soon as the migration is done the SVN module must be set to read-only, just to prevent that we continue working on it
(03:08:24 PM) jwilden: deegree, deegree2 base, deegree desktop, deegree portal
(03:08:29 PM) markusschneider: tfr: agreed
(03:08:34 PM) ndrs1: +1
(03:08:36 PM) markusschneider: one by one please
(03:08:39 PM) jwilden: +1
(03:09:00 PM) markusschneider: i mean the proposals
(03:09:21 PM) markusschneider: deegree2-base
(03:09:27 PM) ndrs1: 0
(03:09:29 PM) markusschneider: 0
(03:09:39 PM) jwilden: +1
(03:09:40 PM) copierrj: +1
(03:09:50 PM) tfr: deegree2-base is required
(03:09:54 PM) copierrj: we still deegree2 use it on some projects
(03:10:06 PM) markusschneider: fine. it's in
(03:10:14 PM) markusschneider: deegree-desktop
(03:10:18 PM) markusschneider: ?
(03:10:20 PM) markusschneider: 0
(03:10:21 PM) ndrs1: 0
(03:10:22 PM) copierrj: 0
(03:10:29 PM) tfr: +1000
(03:10:33 PM) jwilden: +1
(03:10:35 PM) markusschneider: fine
(03:10:37 PM) tfr: it is MUST
(03:10:48 PM) markusschneider: no problem. it's in.
(03:10:57 PM) markusschneider: but personally, i don't care much
(03:11:05 PM) tfr: but the users do
(03:11:14 PM) markusschneider: still this is my opinion
(03:11:33 PM) markusschneider: deegree-portal-standard
(03:11:38 PM) markusschneider: 0
(03:11:39 PM) ndrs1: 0
(03:11:40 PM) copierrj: 0
(03:12:13 PM) jwilden: +1 (this is the actual portal, is it?)
(03:12:19 PM) markusschneider: yes
(03:12:58 PM) tfr: same as with deegree2-base. let#s make a last final release and then announce the users have to migrate
(03:12:58 PM) markusschneider: sidenote: torsten, 0 is not a blocker, you are aware of that?
(03:13:19 PM) markusschneider: just no feeling
(03:13:25 PM) markusschneider: fine
(03:13:30 PM) markusschneider: we have:
(03:13:41 PM) markusschneider: deegree3, deegree-base, deegree-desktop, deegree-portal
(03:13:45 PM) markusschneider: anything else?
(03:13:50 PM) markusschneider: for schedule?
(03:14:07 PM) jwilden: Nope
(03:14:10 PM) copierrj: no
(03:14:14 PM) markusschneider: no
(03:14:17 PM) ndrs1: no
(03:14:52 PM) tfr: not yet, I' ve updated the wiki page
(03:15:45 PM) markusschneider: shouldn't we have just four modules scheduled now?
(03:16:14 PM) ndrs1: at least you should switch the drm-admin with igeoportal-standard
(03:16:44 PM) markusschneider: i would suggest to schedule the three deegree2-modules for December 21st.
(03:16:48 PM) markusschneider: forget the rest
(03:16:59 PM) jwilden: +1
(03:17:33 PM) copierrj: +1 (forget the rest until we've a good reason to do otherwise)
(03:17:44 PM) ndrs1: +1
(03:17:51 PM) tfr: Ok, I put the rest under "unplanned"
(03:17:57 PM) tfr: please refresh
(03:17:58 PM) ndrs1: tfr: you added the portal portlet edition, was that intended?
(03:18:12 PM) ndrs1: and the drm-admin is still in there
(03:18:19 PM) markusschneider: i believe the portlet edition is more than dead...
(03:18:34 PM) markusschneider: but i may be mistaken
(03:19:24 PM) jwilden: I ndon't think so
(03:19:29 PM) ndrs1: last commit 2011-06-29
(03:19:37 PM) tfr: I put drm into the list since I am aware of users using it. And deegree 3 security should have an migration from drm to deegree 3 security
(03:19:42 PM) jwilden: I think it is dead, too
(03:20:05 PM) markusschneider: so vote on drm-admin is needed?
(03:20:09 PM) markusschneider: 0
(03:20:11 PM) ndrs1: 0
(03:20:14 PM) copierrj: 0
(03:20:23 PM) tfr: +1
(03:20:25 PM) ndrs1: keep in mind it's just the gui, the actual drm is in deegree2-base
(03:20:37 PM) jwilden: 0
(03:20:43 PM) markusschneider: ok.
(03:21:14 PM) markusschneider: what about the portlet edition of the portal?
(03:21:17 PM) ndrs1: 0
(03:21:18 PM) markusschneider: 0
(03:21:22 PM) copierrj: 0
(03:21:23 PM) tfr: 0
(03:21:55 PM) ndrs1: jwilden?
(03:22:00 PM) jwilden: 0
(03:22:04 PM) markusschneider: not in
(03:22:26 PM) markusschneider: ok. shall we migrate the four deegree2-modules on the 21st then?
(03:22:32 PM) markusschneider: +1
(03:22:34 PM) jwilden: yes
(03:22:36 PM) ndrs1: I would be fine with that
(03:22:37 PM) copierrj: +1
(03:22:37 PM) jwilden: +1
(03:22:52 PM) markusschneider: torsten?
(03:22:57 PM) tfr: 1
(03:23:15 PM) markusschneider: great. can you update the wiki page once more?
(03:23:20 PM) tfr: OK, please refresh http://wiki.deegree.org/deegreeWiki/GithubMigrationRoadmap
(03:23:35 PM) copierrj: Dez -> Dec
(03:23:41 PM) markusschneider: on the 21st?
(03:24:56 PM) ndrs1: ok, I moved them
(03:25:05 PM) ndrs1: on the page
(03:25:14 PM) markusschneider: are we all fine with this now?
(03:25:21 PM) markusschneider: i am
(03:25:25 PM) copierrj: me2
(03:25:46 PM) jwilden: i am too
(03:26:00 PM) ndrs1: ok. I'm going to prepare some test migrations for these modules too, if that's good for you
(03:26:12 PM) ndrs1: with any luck no changes come in until 21st anyway
(03:26:14 PM) tfr: yes, please
(03:26:26 PM) markusschneider: good.
(03:26:37 PM) markusschneider: andreas, what are you doing on friday exactly
(03:26:47 PM) tfr: we should announce a code freeze during the mirgration period
(03:26:53 PM) markusschneider: agreed
(03:26:54 PM) ndrs1: yes
(03:26:59 PM) tfr: andreas can you post this to the mailing list then
(03:27:04 PM) ndrs1: sure
(03:27:25 PM) ndrs1: markusschneider: I already wrote that on the list
(03:27:37 PM) markusschneider: ok. anybody needs more information?
(03:28:19 PM) ndrs1: btw, this just came in: http://tracker.deegree.org/deegree-services/ticket/468
(03:29:01 PM) ndrs1: I can have a look at that later, if nobody else wants to do it
(03:29:01 PM) markusschneider: Oops.
(03:29:04 PM) copierrj: I suggest to postpone the release mail...
(03:29:15 PM) jwilden: I do so too, seems to be bad
(03:29:21 PM) markusschneider: Andreas: yes please.
(03:29:29 PM) tfr: let's go for pre-13
(03:29:36 PM) tfr: good sign!
(03:29:42 PM) markusschneider: :-)
(03:29:43 PM) copierrj: (or pre-14)
(03:29:58 PM) ndrs1: should be released on a friday then ;-)
(03:30:06 PM) jwilden: Nice
(03:30:30 PM) markusschneider: Let's have a look at Andreas' proposal for the pull-request policy.
(03:30:34 PM) markusschneider: http://wiki.deegree.org/deegreeWiki/Infrastructure
(03:31:02 PM) jwilden: I kinda like it
(03:31:31 PM) markusschneider: I believe this implies a clean commit log for master
(03:31:37 PM) markusschneider: and this is goof
(03:31:42 PM) markusschneider: good
(03:31:58 PM) copierrj: me2, just one thing: what about bugfix pull requests non admins?
(03:32:10 PM) copierrj: they cannot commit directly
(03:32:19 PM) markusschneider: please explain?
(03:33:03 PM) copierrj: well, discussing pull requests every two weeks might be not often enough in some cases
(03:33:31 PM) ndrs1: we could allow direct commits of typos and bugfixes
(03:33:39 PM) markusschneider: well, we always can discuss "emergency pull requests" on the ml
(03:34:07 PM) copierrj: ok
(03:34:10 PM) markusschneider: Maybe we need to try how well it works in practice. Adapt process as needed.
(03:34:25 PM) markusschneider: It's not fixed for the next 1000 years :-)
(03:34:27 PM) jwilden: +1
(03:34:33 PM) ndrs1: sounds sensible
(03:34:41 PM) copierrj: +1
(03:34:43 PM) markusschneider: But I like it, because it's clean and simple
(03:34:46 PM) markusschneider: +1
(03:34:47 PM) ndrs1: so we decide on trying it as proposed?
(03:34:56 PM) ndrs1: then +1
(03:35:14 PM) tfr: +1
(03:35:19 PM) markusschneider: great
(03:35:21 PM) jwilden: gemo+1
(03:35:22 PM) markusschneider: settled
(03:35:29 PM) jwilden: wrong window
(03:36:19 PM) markusschneider: i suggest to skip the open tmc issues this time...
(03:36:26 PM) markusschneider: unless somebody wants to report news
(03:36:37 PM) copierrj: fine with me
(03:36:42 PM) ndrs1: +1
(03:36:53 PM) jwilden: with me too
(03:37:25 PM) markusschneider: That would be it, then!
(03:37:28 PM) ndrs1: wait
(03:37:30 PM) tfr: good
(03:37:44 PM) ndrs1: jwilden: the pre12 seems to work for me, but the workspace list is missing
(03:37:48 PM) ndrs1: can you have a look at that?
(03:37:49 PM) tfr: yes, please
(03:38:08 PM) jwilden: I will
(03:38:11 PM) ndrs1: thanks
(03:38:22 PM) jwilden: Did you dl pre 12 from the homepage?
(03:38:30 PM) ndrs1: well, from the repo
(03:38:47 PM) jwilden: should be the same artefact
(03:38:52 PM) markusschneider: btw, i am on holidays in two weeks...
(03:38:53 PM) ndrs1: yes, I used the .zip
(03:39:00 PM) jwilden: i'll investigate it
(03:39:04 PM) markusschneider: next meeting on the 18th?
(03:39:09 PM) ndrs1: ok
(03:39:15 PM) ndrs1: jwilden: ok
(03:39:15 PM) jwilden: ok
(03:39:17 PM) ndrs1: markusschneider: ok
(03:39:21 PM) copierrj: ok
(03:39:25 PM) tfr: ok
(03:39:39 PM) markusschneider: thank you guys, it was a pleasure :-)
(03:39:51 PM) markusschneider: for the first time...
(03:39:56 PM) markusschneider: ;-)
(03:40:14 PM) ndrs1: yeah yeah ;-)
(03:40:44 PM) ndrs1: ok, bye
(03:40:49 PM) markusschneider: bye
(03:40:52 PM) jwilden: bye
(03:40:54 PM) copierrj: bye
(03:41:02 PM) copierrj left the room (quit: Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89 [Firefox 16.0.2/20121024073032]).