Unterhaltung mit #deegree

(16:06:10) markusschneider: Welcome to the meeting. Meeting page here: http://wiki.deegree.org/deegreeWiki/TmcMeeting/TmcMeeting20121218
(16:06:27) markusschneider: Anything missing from the agenda?
(16:06:46) jwilden: No
(16:06:56) copierrj: no
(16:07:23) ndrs1: no
(16:07:26) markusschneider: no
(16:07:36) tfr: See PSC http://wiki.deegree.org/deegreeWiki/PscMeeting/PscMeeting20121217 - 7. TMC topics
(16:07:49) markusschneider: did i miss something?
(16:08:10) markusschneider: ah, there was a new meeting?
(16:08:27) markusschneider: but this came a bit late, don't you think?
(16:09:00) tfr: Both topics should be done in a few minutes I guess
(16:09:10) ndrs1: ok by me
(16:09:18) copierrj: fine
(16:09:27) markusschneider: fine then
(16:09:41) markusschneider: i add them to the agenda. sec
(16:10:40) markusschneider: ok
(16:11:14) markusschneider: i guess now comes everybody's favorite part of the meeting
(16:11:21) markusschneider: ;-)
(16:11:29) markusschneider: http://wald.intevation.org/tracker/?atid=303&group_id=27&func=browse
(16:11:37) markusschneider: Lets see
(16:11:52) mlechner hat den Raum verlassen (quit: Quit: Ex-Chat).
(16:12:01) markusschneider: #6402: Prepare a short TMC statement on the community space. http://wald.intevation.org/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=6402&group_id=27&atid=303
(16:13:34) mlechner [~mlechner@pd95b8344.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] hat den Raum betreten.
(16:13:38) markusschneider: Does this still make sense? It may be a bit late now. If we do this then today, i suggest (right after the meeting).
(16:13:56) markusschneider: for mlechner: this is about #6402: Prepare a short TMC statement on the community space. http://wald.intevation.org/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=6402&group_id=27&atid=303
(16:14:32) ndrs1: I can live without a statement, but I also thought so last time ;-)
(16:14:46) jwilden: Me to, as I think it is also to late for that
(16:15:04) copierrj: are there any ideas already regarding the content of the statement?
(16:15:39) tfr: since PSC plans community space follow-up event in 2013 this is a good starting point to think about the last onw
(16:15:47) markusschneider: nothing much except "great event and let's not lose the momentum"
(16:16:32) markusschneider: torsten: so you suggest to?
(16:16:43) tfr: well, I would prefere "great event, now get back at work
(16:16:49) tfr: and get it running
(16:16:49) copierrj: maybe we could do a wrap-up regarding the git migration?
(16:17:07) markusschneider: nice thinking.
(16:17:31) tfr: please put any input in the ticket. then marcus, reijer and myself can create a piece of text out of it
(16:17:43) ndrs1: copierrj: well, the git migration will be completed only this Friday
(16:17:44) markusschneider: something like: changes triggered by the community space.
(16:18:11) ndrs1: ok, +1
(16:18:17) jwilden: +1
(16:18:28) copierrj: +1
(16:18:56) tfr: for what shall I now add one?
(16:19:23) ndrs1: for you three preparing a short text
(16:19:41) jwilden: on what was triggered at the community space
(16:20:13) markusschneider: ok. i guess the ticket stays. and the three of us should have a little chat on that after the meeting?
(16:20:33) markusschneider: reijer, torsten?
(16:20:40) copierrj: fine with me
(16:20:42) markusschneider: maybe skype
(16:21:06) copierrj: that's probably more convenient
(16:21:50) markusschneider: torsten? ok?
(16:22:09) tfr: I added this to the ticket [#6402]
(16:22:26) tfr: done
(16:22:43) markusschneider: ok. thanks
(16:22:56) markusschneider: [#6403] deegree 3.2-pre12 release announcement: http://wald.intevation.org/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=6403&group_id=27&atid=303
(16:23:32) ndrs1: jwilden: are there still changelogs missing?
(16:23:34) markusschneider: well, sorry from my side for sending the compiled changelog so late.
(16:23:36) jwilden: I just got all necessary infrmation and will write it tomorrow
(16:23:41) markusschneider: great
(16:23:44) jwilden: No, you were the last one markus
(16:23:50) jwilden: ;)
(16:24:29) markusschneider: [#6321] Migrate issue tracker to JIRA: http://wald.intevation.org/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=6321&group_id=27&atid=303
(16:25:05) markusschneider: Do we postpone this now, as we want to try github's tracker first?
(16:25:08) copierrj: isn't this postponed?
(16:25:17) markusschneider: yes, but for other reasons :-)
(16:25:31) tfr: For which reason?
(16:26:03) markusschneider: Waiting for PSC's green signal
(16:26:39) tfr: And why then using the github tracker? Don't get it?
(16:27:22) markusschneider: Maybe I am wrong here, but I believe we reached that consensus on the community space!?
(16:27:26) ndrs1: yes, I thought we wanted to try if we can get by with the github tracker?
(16:27:38) copierrj: yes we did imho
(16:27:47) tfr: Well, everyone can test this tool by themself. But I would not anounce this to the community
(16:28:07) tfr: Then please point me to that decision!
(16:28:08) ndrs1: yes, agreed. First we need to find out how to convert the trac issues
(16:28:35) markusschneider: momemnt
(16:28:54) tfr: Right, let's test the github tracker and then decide.
(16:29:12) jwilden: So action item: Test github tracker?
(16:29:17) markusschneider: It should be here somewhere: http://wiki.deegree.org/deegreeWiki/deegreeCommunitySpace2012
(16:29:39) tfr: The deegree community is using wald, trac and github tracker. Two tracker too much IMO!
(16:29:48) markusschneider: "Obviously broad acceptance to move to Github - Github might also be used for trackers - TMC to make a concrete proposal how to move on"
(16:30:18) ndrs1: yes, the idea would be to move all trackers, once finally decided
(16:30:44) copierrj: ok, so we can just propose to move to the Github tracker for the time being?
(16:30:59) markusschneider: I don't know.
(16:31:15) tfr: How can you propose to move without really testing it?
(16:31:27) ndrs1: I think we can first all get familiar with it since the pull requests use the tracker as well
(16:31:38) ndrs1: then we can decide a bit later
(16:31:42) tfr: And wasn't there a requirement that the Issue tracker should be integrated in the IDE as well?
(16:31:49) markusschneider: I wouldn't like to move this for a few months and then find out that it doesn't fulfill our requirements
(16:32:06) copierrj: there is a mylyn (=eclipse) plugin for github
(16:32:12) ndrs1: http://eclipse.github.com/
(16:32:18) tfr: Ok, then let's agree that we start testing it.
(16:32:28) tfr: And writing down what we need
(16:32:42) markusschneider: +1
(16:32:47) copierrj: +1
(16:32:48) ndrs1: +1
(16:32:49) jwilden: +1
(16:33:06) tfr: The workflow we agreed on is something we should consider.
(16:33:15) markusschneider: right.
(16:33:38) markusschneider: I will add this to the JIRA ticket then.
(16:33:49) tfr: Yes, please
(16:33:49) markusschneider: Or shall we close it?
(16:34:08) ndrs1: no, leave it open (else we'd need a new ticket anyway)
(16:34:36) markusschneider: ok
(16:34:45) markusschneider: Next, then.
(16:35:15) markusschneider: [#6298] Prepare a suggestion for maintained components/modules
(16:35:32) markusschneider: http://wald.intevation.org/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=6298&group_id=27&atid=303
(16:36:01) markusschneider: I still have the ticket
(16:36:18) markusschneider: Andreas: What's the status of the site?
(16:36:33) ndrs1: the site is more or less running (without Javadocs)
(16:36:54) ndrs1: so the question is now, how to integrate something new (and probably self-written), and who's to write the plugin
(16:37:15) markusschneider: http://buildserver.deegree.org/job/deegree-3.2-site/site/
(16:37:24) jwilden: (I have to leave for an appointment in a few minutes, so just for your information: I vote +1 on #452 and there is nothing new on #6294 Regular pre-release builds/quality assurance.)
(16:37:37) markusschneider: Thanks.
(16:37:53) markusschneider: ndrs: good recap
(16:38:19) markusschneider: is there anybody who always wanted to write a reporting plugin?
(16:38:26) ndrs1: perhaps I can find the time for the plugin early next year, but no promises
(16:39:20) markusschneider: good. thanks. if will try, too.
(16:39:30) markusschneider: I
(16:39:32) ndrs1: so next issue then, if there are no other volunteers?
(16:39:32) jwilden: Thanks
(16:39:45) markusschneider: [#6322] Migrate source code to git, possibly using bitbucket
(16:39:49) markusschneider: http://wald.intevation.org/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=6322&group_id=27&atid=303
(16:39:55) jwilden: I have to go, sorry! See you soon. :)
(16:39:59) markusschneider: See you
(16:40:00) ndrs1: bye
(16:40:01) copierrj: cu
(16:40:04) jwilden hat den Raum verlassen.
(16:40:15) ndrs1: according to the roadmap, Friday the last projects will be migrated
(16:40:45) markusschneider: Then we close the ticket?
(16:40:58) markusschneider: Great
(16:41:11) markusschneider: [#1275] Propose process for dealing with feature requests in the deegree issue tracker: http://wald.intevation.org/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1275&group_id=27&atid=303
(16:41:34) markusschneider: yep. we take that into account for the github tracker trial.
(16:41:36) tfr: This is related to the JIRA ticket.
(16:41:56) markusschneider: ok, then
(16:42:08) markusschneider: [#6389] Version numbering schema used for deegree: http://wald.intevation.org/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=6389&group_id=27&atid=303
(16:42:31) markusschneider: I believe we had some discussion on that on the community space as well, right?
(16:42:57) tfr: This is part of the release plan as well.
(16:43:05) markusschneider: but nothing in the protocol, so i may be wrong
(16:43:25) markusschneider: can you point to anything?
(16:44:09) copierrj: we did talk about this (shortly) during the f2f tmc meeting before the community space if I remember correctly
(16:44:28) markusschneider: ah. yes. i remember slightly
(16:44:40) ndrs1: I still think we're already more or less following the maven scheme. I seem to remember that we agreed we need faster release cycles
(16:44:55) copierrj: and no longer -pre postfixes
(16:45:23) ndrs1: really? Sounds like a maven 'qualifier' to me
(16:45:52) ndrs1: so for pre-releases we only lack the 'incremental' component
(16:46:14) copierrj: it's currently being used as a kind of semi-stable (ie. for production)
(16:46:31) ndrs1: yes, that's why we need shorter release cycles
(16:46:36) tfr: we agreed : 1 major release a year, 1 minor release bi-monthly, 1 pre release bi-weekly
(16:47:25) markusschneider: would be fine by me.
(16:47:36) copierrj: ok
(16:47:43) ndrs1: I don't remember the exact details like you seem to, but looks good ;-)
(16:48:06) tfr: I made a photo and I do have this right in front of me now
(16:48:16) markusschneider: I suggest to add this information to the ticket and close it.
(16:48:34) copierrj: Is the photo online?
(16:48:48) ndrs1: yes, found it in the wiki: http://wiki.deegree.org/deegreeWiki/deegreeCommunitySpace2012
(16:49:06) markusschneider: Ok. I can add this information and we close it?
(16:49:10) ndrs1: +1
(16:49:27) tfr: I added it
(16:49:29) copierrj: +1
(16:49:51) markusschneider: Thanks.
(16:50:20) markusschneider: But this is still missing the information how it relates to the original issue.
(16:50:28) markusschneider: I can add it later
(16:50:36) markusschneider: but we agree to close it, right?
(16:51:16) markusschneider: good
(16:51:25) tfr: What about making the issue description text available in the wiki?
(16:51:55) markusschneider: In the wiki?
(16:52:19) markusschneider: What do you mean exactly?
(16:52:34) tfr: Well, website or wiki. At apropriate place.
(16:53:12) markusschneider: You mean, which version numbers we are going to use in the future?
(16:53:46) markusschneider: I could imagine this to be part of the roadmap page.
(16:53:46) tfr: To inform the community how we deal with version numbers and the decisions which came along. Such as not changing the API for a minor release.
(16:54:09) tfr: Roadmap is a good place
(16:54:25) ndrs1: hm, what about http://wiki.deegree.org/deegreeWiki/deegree3/StabilityManifestoDraft
(16:55:34) markusschneider: But please recall that we agreed that full compatibility efforts will only be in place for 4.0.
(16:55:55) ndrs1: yes, as you wrote down in the manifesto...
(16:56:13) markusschneider: and discussed on the community space
(16:56:39) tfr: Well, I still have some objections.
(16:57:19) markusschneider: well, go ahead if you like
(16:57:22) tfr: We need a decision on that manifesto. It is still a draft.
(16:57:36) markusschneider: agreed
(16:57:46) ndrs1: tfr: well, what objections do you have?
(16:58:52) markusschneider: hmm
(16:59:14) markusschneider: you're right that we need a documented decision on the manifesto
(16:59:22) tfr: Why not make parts of the API/configuration stable for v 3.2 already?
(16:59:22) tfr: And I would prefer to freeze the deegree workspace configuration now. Not in 4.0
(16:59:22) copierrj: what parts could be declared stable already in your opinion?
(16:59:34) tfr: The deegree workspace configuration should be stable.
(16:59:55) tfr: API is not important, yet IMO
(17:00:11) ndrs1: well, it's already going to be incompatible for 3.2, there's no way back
(17:00:24) ndrs1: and for 4.0 the manifesto states that it's going to be compatible
(17:00:39) ndrs1: so what else?
(17:00:48) markusschneider: moment, please
(17:00:51) markusschneider: step-by-step
(17:00:56) tfr: 3.2 finale /GA release will have a then the stable config
(17:01:32) markusschneider: do we agree about api stability for pre-4.0?
(17:02:20) tfr: No, as long as we stick with the decision that we will have 4.0 in Dec. 2013 final.
(17:03:42) tfr: And during that time frame we can consolidate the API, this would be nice.
(17:03:50) markusschneider: To clarify: My opinion would be to only focus on configuration compatibility for 3.2, 3.3, 3.4, ...
(17:04:34) markusschneider: API stability would be introduced with 4.0
(17:04:36) ndrs1: agreed.
(17:04:36) tfr: Yes, that's it. Nothing more
(17:04:49) markusschneider: reijer?
(17:05:39) copierrj: regarding stability manifesto ?
(17:05:54) markusschneider: To clarify: My opinion would be to only focus on configuration compatibility for 3.2, 3.3, 3.4, ...
(17:05:58) markusschneider: API stability would be introduced with 4.0
(17:06:23) copierrj: agreed
(17:06:27) tfr: You will get my "+1"!
(17:06:41) ndrs1: ok, then
(17:06:45) markusschneider: thank you :-)
(17:07:13) tfr: well done! that's it for today I guess?
(17:07:13) markusschneider: good, what about config compatibility then. We want as much as we can get for 3.x, that's for sure.
(17:07:40) markusschneider: i am sorry for this getting so long...
(17:08:00) tfr: Another topic? I have to move on...
(17:08:14) markusschneider: I understand
(17:08:38) markusschneider: but at least we should consider our first pull request!
(17:08:53) markusschneider: the rest can wait, i guess
(17:09:01) ndrs1: agreed
(17:09:03) markusschneider: https://github.com/deegree/deegree3/pulls
(17:09:04) copierrj: ok
(17:09:09) tfr: ok
(17:10:01) markusschneider: Andreas, can you explain how to deal with this now?
(17:10:11) ndrs1: everyone ok with https://github.com/deegree/deegree3/pull/4 ?
(17:10:11) tfr: yes.
(17:10:17) ndrs1: well, you can all review the pull request by using the link I posted
(17:10:26) ndrs1: have a look at the commits, have a look at the ticket
(17:10:41) ndrs1: and then you can comment on it
(17:10:49) ndrs1: if we agree, we merge it in
(17:11:40) markusschneider: 36 files. https://github.com/deegree/deegree3/pull/4/files
(17:11:52) ndrs1: you can also periodically review pull requests outside of this meeting, so we can just do the decision here
(17:11:52) tfr: Can this pull/merge be done via the web interface as well?
(17:11:58) ndrs1: yes, if you click on the pull request you should see a green 'merge pull request' button
(17:12:39) markusschneider: you need to sign in. i wasn't ;-)
(17:12:42) ndrs1: at least if you're logged in as owner
(17:12:56) markusschneider: This pull request can be automatically merged.
(17:12:56) tfr: right I wasn't logged in as well
(17:13:33) markusschneider: i trust the author, so i give my thumbs up ;-)
(17:13:51) ndrs1: heh :-) +1
(17:14:55) markusschneider: It's a bit more convoluted than it should be, though.
(17:15:01) tfr: Well, and we paid for it. So, go go go +1
(17:15:01) copierrj: +1
(17:15:24) copierrj: you mean it contains to many unrelated commits?
(17:15:54) markusschneider: Well, Andreas commits were partly related to the github move.
(17:16:00) markusschneider: DOne.
(17:16:13) ndrs1: yep
(17:16:19) markusschneider: Well thank you, then.
(17:17:17) markusschneider: I guess this was a bit long for today.
(17:17:18) ndrs1: ok, have a nice Christmas, happy new year (I assume we won't have another meeting this year)!
(17:17:22) copierrj: I just noticed that the website still lists SVN instead of github
(17:17:45) tfr: sTill?
(17:17:51) tfr: You are right!
(17:18:08) markusschneider: http://www.deegree.org/Community
(17:18:37) ndrs1: yes, I think I sent tfr and jwilden a mail with the new text?
(17:19:06) tfr: A new text?
(17:19:34) copierrj: just two url's propably
(17:19:44) ndrs1: yes, more or less (on 4th of December)
(17:19:47) tfr: This is what I have got:
(17:19:48) tfr: The source code is on [GitHub|https://github.com/deegree/deegree3]. Read-only access: git clone git://github.com/deegree/deegree3.git Developer access: git clone git@github.com:deegree/deegree3.git
(17:21:12) markusschneider: Ok. Isn't that enough?
(17:21:25) copierrj: seems ok
(17:21:25) copierrj: could we postpone the meeting regarding the community space?
(17:21:46) markusschneider: agreed
(17:21:56) markusschneider: torsten has to leave anyway
(17:22:15) tfr: Yes, thanks everyone! Have nice time! Hear you next year!
(17:22:32) markusschneider: torsten, can you update the deegree page?
(17:22:52) markusschneider: yes and have a nice christmas, you guys.
(17:22:57) markusschneider: see you next year!
(17:23:02) copierrj: cu
(17:23:03) tfr: This is what I am trying to do right now.
(17:23:08) markusschneider: thanks
(17:23:08) tfr: byebye
(17:23:14) ndrs1: ok, bye